By John Held, Jr.

 

Monte Cazazza is an artist, filmmaker and musician, who among other things, came up with the name Industrial Music while involved with Throbbing Gristle in the late 1970s. His exploits are well documented in Research publications (Industrial Culture Handbook, Pranks) and elsewhere. Through his association with the Bay Area Dada group in the early 1970s, we have several mutual acquaintances, which paved the way toward our friendship. Drawing upon this relationship, I attempted to put him on the record. Not easy.

 

 

From: johnheldjr
To: mcazzaza
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 8:20 AM
Subject: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

KQED will re-broadcast, “The Fine Art of Collecting,” segment of SPARK, which features my Mail Art activities, on Tuesday, December 4 at 7:30pm.

 

“We show how collecting can be an art form unto itself, when we meet collectors who have turned a casual interest into a lifelong passion.”

 

—–Original Message—–
From: Monte Cazazza
To: johnheldjr
Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:08 am
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

John congratulations but no tv where i am does sparks go online…mc

 

From: johnheldjr
To: mcazzaza
Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2012 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

Monte:

 

Hope this finds you well. You can see the program online here: http://www.kqed.org/arts/programs/spark/profile.jsp?essid=4489. Let me know when you are in San Francisco. I’d like to do a short interview with you. I’ve been writing for San Francisco Arts Quarterly.

 

-John

 

—–Original Message—–

 

From: Monte Cazazza
To: johnheldjr
Sent: Sat, Dec 1, 2012 9:29 am
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

John; watched the program you were excellent it was really funny and fun too.  don’t have any plans for being back down there anytime soon too broke…If you want we could do it by email or telephone etc think about that…Monte

 

 

 

From: johnheldjr
To: mcazzaza
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

Monte-

 

Been thinking on this interview for awhile. So, sorry for the delay. I’ve read some of your earlier interviews, and I’m intimidated cause they all know so much about your work -the music, the films, which I am mostly unfamiliar with, because I don’t listen to music, and I’m pretty squeamish when it comes to blood and guts, which I’ve heard, enters into your work. But what I do know is you, and what a truly nice guy you are, with a history that stretches back before the days of Industrial Music to the early 70s of Bay Area Dada,
which so many of our mutual friends were involved in. Am I mistaken in thinking that this was one of your first forays into the so-called artworld?

 

-John

 

—–Original Message—–

 

From: Monte Cazazza
To: johnheldjr
Sent: Tue, Dec 18, 2012 3:13 pm
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

John :  there is no problem…we can talk about the good the bad and the ugly of the artworld…you don’t have to talk about my music or films…we can talk about how phoney a lot of people are…we can talk about how some people have integrity and many don’t….we can talk about my favorite movies….artists, writers.  horrible politicians Ist amendment issues….the drop in IQ in general because of the rise of the internet and technology….there is a whole world of subjects…we don’t have to talk about ME at all….we can talk about space aliens,  paranoia, roman catholicsm, philosophy, World War 3, money, The Third Mind… you name it buddy…it’s up to you we can touch on as many or few subjects that you want for as long as it takes that’s all up to you…that’s the beauty of doing it over the internet….Don’t be intimidated…We can make it fun….so there you go ….there’s a world of possibilities…So think about that…All the Best Monte

 

From: johnheldjr
To: mcazzaza
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

Monte-

 

We’ll get to the space aliens (and the phonies) in due time. Meanwhile, let’s stay on your youthful formative period. Use your Third Mind and tell me about yourself, circa 1970.

 

-John

 

 

 

From: Monte Cazazza
To: johnheldjr
Sent: Wed, Dec 19, 2012 11:05 am
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

John:  ok we start I was always interested in 3 big topics: arts, experimental physics, and history particularly the history of medicine…A lot of this has to with my childhood but that’s a book in itself….also writers because I didn’t have too many friends…so books were more my friends than other children…and I would spend a lot of time ditching school and going to libraries and museums and trying to take tours of anything like for instance I went to the Heinz food factory to watch them make ketchup and the 57 varieties of other food stuff they made…This was much more educational to me than sitting at a desk and listening to someone lecture…many times about something they didn’t care anything about really…so I was an early discipline problem…but I was more interested in how the world really works by direct observation….I think the first big art show I saw was an Andy Warhol exhibit which was when he was doing the accident stuff and electric chair series….At that point I spent a bunch of time in the library trying to find out everything about electric chair executions and I found a  paperback book by a prison warden who had witnessed a bunch of executions…so when  I had to do this book report in front of the class that didn’t go over too well to put it mildly….So i say “Blame It All On Andy”… how’s that for a start…

 

check this out i don’t know if i sent it to you previously www.artabase.net/exhibitions/3986-atrocity

 

From: johnheldjr
To: mcazzaza
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

Monte-

 

Found this when I accessed artabase:

 

Monte Cazazza: first emerged as a mail artist. Monte coined the term Industrial Music while collaborating with Throbbing Gristle in the mid-seventies. He has subsequently worked with various bands and musicians and has released numerous solo albums, the most recent of which was The Cynic (Blast First Petite). He has worked with Survival Research Labs engaging in numerous legendary machine performances, co-produced and directed short films including the infamous SXXX80. As an artist he has exhibited his frequently confrontational and darkly humorous artworks across the world. He was a regular contributor to (and subject of) the groundbreaking journal Re/Search.

 

I still want to go back to the Mail Art/Bay Area Dada connection, # 1, because Mail Art gets so little respect, but deserves it because it incubated “outsiders” like yourself, who found little support elsewhere. Am I right in thinking this?

 

—–Original Message—–

From: Monte Cazazza
To: johnheldjr
Sent: Wed, Dec 19, 2012 9:08 pm
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

John:  without a doubt…I would say mail artists were the first to realize the large potential in xerox machines and instant printing  cut up collages and of course rubber stamps  way before they were picked up by punk rock and used for posters etc…remember the posters used for music like the fillmore were done more as silkscreens which of course cost a lot more because of multiple colors etc…and like I personally said on more than one occasion Bill and Tim were very supportive…In fact i met Genesis and Cosey because of correspondance art…in fact a number of artists moved into doing fast posters for punk and alternative bands…as they had developed their chops doing mail art…So that idea of cheap production was picked up very fast by all parties concerned…Because really all you needed was a pair of scissors and a bottle of rubber cement to get started…and things were kept in black and white because it was cheap then to xerox or instant print them…color cost more…although printing black on colored paper was not cost prohibitive….mail art was a big incubator for all of that…in fact my earliest laptop was a 99 cent notebook with a bic pen which i still use today…It is becoming an alarming trend that a lot of young people don’t know how to do cursive anymore they are stuck with a keyboard….oh well….And i do agree with you that early mail art still gets little respect…the whole zine explosion also could be traced back to that too.  to be continued…mc

 

Oh i wanted to add one more thing as an addenda….we were really lucky here because no one thought too much of the potential of xerox machines they weren’t controlled like they were in the soviet union…and when you worked places they didn’t keep a strict count on how many copies were being made…so you could print up things on the sly…and it was always a good idea to make or have friends that worked at the copy places too…to be continued MC

 

From: johnheldjr
To: mcazzaza
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

Monte-

 

I should mention that the Bill and Tim you refer to are Bill Gaglione and Tim Mancusi, two cousins who were active in the Bay Area Dada Group. Beside cheaply produced Bay Area Dada publications like the NYCS (New York Correspondance [sic] School) Weekly Breeder, West Bay Dada, and VILE, among many others, there was an early performative aspect to the group, which included both public interventions, like the Banana Olympics, organized by Anna Banana, and indoor gallery actions, like the one you did where you chain sawed a plaster Jesus, clearing the venue in a plume of dust. Do you remember that performance? Were there other comparable performances/actions of yours during this period?

 

—–Original Message—–
From: Monte Cazazza
To: johnheldjr
Sent: Thu, Dec 20, 2012 12:44 pm
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

John: of course I know Bill Gaglione and Tim Mancusi’s names just fill that in…we should talk about that a bit BADG….didn’t do the banana olympics not my cup of tea besides she didn’t like me very much for good reason…. Also BADG had mail art shows at Mostly Flowers gallery which was a gallery and flower shop combined….That one where jesus got chainsawed I put on myself carlo ciccatelli took some great photos of that Bill Gaglione and Ron Illardo were in it also…I did a bunch of street theatre stuff in Oakland and Berkeley…And on the BART when it first opened with Fred Bruhns…. and billboard alterations too…. Also Baron’s where Bill worked supplied people with materials at a discount….Did an exhibit with Stuart Horne too in philadelphia….ok to be continued  MC

 

From: johnheldjr
To: mcazzaza
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

Monte-

 

Can you give me some details about the early street theater works, including the BART piece? The billboard alterations as well – this was pretty early for graffiti. Well, except for cave drawings…

 

-John

 

—–Original Message—–
From: Monte Cazazza
To: johnheldjr
Sent: Sat, Dec 22, 2012 10:18 am
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

John:  Well not really as I’m not going to try and describe things that were too visual….things like crime scene simulations, etc  etc.  its too complicated to put into words that’s like trying to describe “The Living Theatre” you had to see it and be there or like that jesus piece words don’t suffice or an SRL show must be experienced….Graffiti has been around since the Romans….not early for graffiti at all tons of it was done in the 60’s also come on you know better….M

 

From: johnheldjr
To: mcazzaza
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

Monte-

 

Ok. But tell me about one piece, “The One Thousand Dollar Proposition.”

 

-John

 

 

 

John:

 

You got to realize I’m not into nostalgia….most of this stuff was in the past or documented here and there…read  Research” Industrial Culture” or you read the “Vile” or look at “Weekly Breeders” and say what you want…I’m not going to explain things to people that’s not my job…. I live now not then I’m not concerned with the past that is not my problem…so I’m brief about things…you can read it there’s nothing else to tell…Yoko Ono does her conceptual art I do mine

 

To: mcazzaza
From: johnheldjr
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

Monte:

 

You are one tough interview, my friend. OK, so what’s going on now?

 

John

 

—–Original Message—–
From: Monte Cazazza
To: johnheldjr
Sent: Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:06 pm
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

John:  I can be tough but I’m not commenting on things that are obvious…either when people see or hear them or read them they get it or not….It’s not one of my goals to explain or justify my forms of self expression…they are open to interpretation both right or wrong…The audience if there is one has to make up their own mind…I’m not going to explain it to them…if they can not come to their own conclusions that is not my fault….I’m not very interested in whether they like things or not in fact if they come to wrong conclusions that’s fine too…

 

From: johnheldjr
To: mcazzaza
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

Monte:

 

I understand completely that you do what you do for yourself. What’s the drive that makes it possible?

 

-John

 

-Original Message—–
From: Monte Cazazza
To: johnheldjr
Sent: Thu, Dec 29, 2012
Subject: Re: The Fine Art of Collecting

 

John: don’t know maybe i’m just fed up with hypocrisy that masquerades for american society….to be continued…mc